Censored Essentials?
In response to my query about which panels had been censored in Essential Tomb of Dracula Volume 4 (I asked after reading about it at Wikipedia), Andreas sent me some scans, which I present here for comparison, and here's what he had to say about them:
The chickenshits at Marvel indeed censored the stuff. I send you the most obvious stuff which I have in my collection. It's from Tomb of Dracula The Magazine No. 5 (Sanctuary by Roger McKenzie and Gene Colan) and the according panels from Essential Dracula 4. This is Litith, Daugther of Dracula, btw in the panels. The lovingly rendered Impaling splash-page is not harmed. Typical. This was published in 1980, so I guess they wanted to go the more mature way. Didn´t help the magazine either. After Marv Wolfman was gone, they didn´t have a clue how to handle this character.
I don´t think there is much more in the volume, as the companion mag Dracula Lives was pretty tame in that regard. Maybe there is the odd breast-shot, but I can´t say for sure, and my memory is hazy on this.
In addition, respondant Douglas Ford noted:
On the nudity in the ESSENTIAL TOD--my god, yes, I thought my memory was just skewed when I picked up them up from the book store and thought that nudity was missing. You know how those youthful hormones will mess with your imagination . . . Anyway, I double checked, and there are GLARING revisions to certain panels. Look ten pages into Vol 4, and you'll see a gory panel on the lower left hand side of the page of Dracula squeezing the neck of a vampire woman. In the original, her left breast is exposed, while the "revised" scene shows her covered.I posted the censored version, and Andreas has since found and sent me the original:
I'll happily post anything else that anyone might have to add.Also, I've been looking forward to Essential Marvel Horror and Essential Tales of the Zombie, and I'm curious if anyone knows about impending censorship where they're concerned. Please let me know if you've heard anything about this!
P.S.--it's hard to believe just how ridiculous things are in America right now, but for a bit of broader context, here's another, very different example that shows the degree of insanity our breast intolerance has reached. Check out the reactions to this innocent cover:
My favorite: "I don't want my son or husband to accidentally see a breast they didn't want to see."P.P.S.--Without excusing anything or letting anyone off the hoook, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that this isn't a uniquely American problem. Here's a Lucifera cover I've posted previously:
And here's a censored version I found at this site, where you can see a number of side-by-side comparisons of original and censored versions of various fumetti covers (all European):
Furthermore, when Andreas sent me the scans for this Zora issue, he said, I bought a couple of Zora in the french edition and got a double. The Mummy issue. And guess what - it was censored. The pages I scanned for you from the italian original were mostly omitted. A shame. The french editions are so much cheaper on Ebay, but they seem to cut out some of the rougher stuff. Who needs this?Who indeed? So yes, it's a problem in George W. Bush's America, but this isn't unknown in Italy or France, either.
UPDATES: Gene Colan's response at Around Comics; and my own response to a commenter, addressing various points that have come up in the general discussion.
26 comments:
I have the first volume of the Essential DRACULA and boy does it take me back to my childhood.
My problem with this is the fact that the magazines were not sold as "adult" material, but available on the newsstand unbagged as were the Warren magazines. Kids of all ages bought them.
If it was good enough for the mass market newsstand then, its good enough for the bookstores now. This is silly and just plain wrong on several fronts.
The ESSENTIALS format is "essentially" an inexpensive archive format for those of us who aren't made of money but want to read the original stories. This censorship violates that "archive" mandate to provide the original stories.
And of course, it's censorship which is silly.
If it truly is the bookstores who are saying this material is too adult for comics, then clearly they don't know what they are talking about or what a comic is.
A comic is not an age group or a genre but a medium (something we all know but the mainstream just doesn't seem to want to grasp), and as such is open to all sorts of storytelling possibilities and content.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I would urge everyone to investigate this matter and let's discover if there truly is a problem here -or- if some overzealous bookstore buyer, or Marvel is putting their own issues into play anticipating a problem where none exists.
Bill, I agree 100% with everything you say here!
As an European I guess it is the current climate abroad. Marvel seems to be deathly afraid of any controverse. There was so much nonsense in the recent past. From Frank Chos Shanna, which was censored before publication to the censored old stuff ranging from Daughters of the Dragon to Dracula.
And this is such tame stuff. You see more in primetime tv. Okay, you don´t :-), we do. Nudity in drama series is a natural thing, and nobody ever gives a damn.
Has this really got so bad in the US of A that a little nude sketch in a comic could make such waves?
On the other hand, didn´t those old Tom&Jerry cartoons not get censored just recently because there were some characters smoking? What is next? Digitally working over old cop shows like Dragnet or M Squad and erase all smokers, before you release them on DVD?
You know, this is rewriting history. Not covering the tits, which is not more than childish and cowardly. But the mentality that you have to censor stuff to make it "safe" for new consumers, just because of the current moral climate.
I can't understand this censorship because there was hardly anything there in the first place. Eek! The barest suggestion of nipples!
God, what a sad situation.
Interesting to know before I rush out to buy any of these, and annoying as hell that they can't leave well enough alone.
Absolutely right, Honey and Mob. Great work tracking this down, Andy--thanks!
About fumetti censorship,
when Maghella was reprinted in Italy as Maghella Collezione (with two episodes per issue), all the nudity had been retouched away from the cover art. But I've never seen Italians alter the contents of any fumetti. (well, sometimes they've added more porn and violence to reprints of older fumetti, but that doesn't really bother me much)
Regarding Essential Tales of the Zombie... Marvel has confirmed that this book will be uncensored.
Well, nudity won't be a problem with Tales of the Zombie.
Plus, this discussion is idiotic. It's not censorship, since the people holding the rights to the material are doing it out of their own free will, and not because of government coercion.
Essentials are sold as an All Ages mass market product. They had to cover the nudity to maintain that promise to their audience and distributors. If they ever print Masterworks versions of the comics, the nudity will likely be on full display.
This discussion sounds like saying that anytime anyone decides to make a change to something they own the rights to, it's censorship.
That means whenever an author rewrites a novel - it's censorship. When a Director recuts his film for a DVD release and it takes out some scenes: must be censorship.
But y'all don't want serious discussion. It's clear this is more about your own self-righteousness and moral indignation than it is Marvel's right to do whatever the hell they want with their own material.
Greg and John--thanks for the Zombie info!
And John, in a few days, once I've wrapped up the voodoo theme I'm working on here (see more recent posts for that), rest assured I'll have some "serious discussion" for you.
Hmm -
In retrospect, my post was too harshly worded and I came off angrier than I should have.
My main problem is with the overuse of the term censorship. We can say Marvel's move is gutless, stupid, or "not what we would do". But to call it censorship is to dilute the term too far. Unless the government threatened them, or some big corporation threatened to ruin them financially, it really can't be censorship. Instead, it was Marvel making a decision to keep the identity of a particular brand.
Anyway, sorry for being somewhat of a jerk in the first post. My basic sentiments are still the same, but I was waaay to over the top in my phrasing.
(I should say that I hope Marvel reprints them in "uncensored" versions in some other format - but either way the stories were still good and I didn't miss the nudity).
sorry for being somewhat of a jerk in the first post
Accepted.
My basic sentiments are still the same
Oh don't worry--I still have every intention of addressing them. All in due time.
I run the Marvel Essentials yahoo group and I have not read about any further censorship for future horror volumes. I hate to admit it but Marvel Comics during the 1970s was my "kick-start into puberty. I mean Storm often got naked in the X-Men and so did the Scarlet Witch in the Avengers. I hope that Marvel does not further edit the semi- nudity out of John Byrne' artwork on Avengers, Fantastic Four, and the X-Men, in future Essential volumes. If they do it will further demonstrate what a sad society we have become. I mean all of these upper-middle class housewives are having fits about their kids seeing nudity, well I say to these women be a parent and "police" what your own kids view, but do not try to censor society as whole, just because you find it supposedly find it offensive. I bet your daughter is the one with her thong hanging out of her jeans at the mall. If you want to "police" something then care of that. I hate to spoil your delusions ladies but these kids are going through puberty and as such they will find access to sexually orientated material whether you want them to or not.
I run the Marvel Essentials yahoo group and I have not read about any further censorship for future horror volumes. I hate to admit it but Marvel Comics during the 1970s was my "kick-start into puberty. I mean Storm often got naked in the X-Men and so did the Scarlet Witch in the Avengers. I hope that Marvel does not further edit the semi- nudity out of John Byrne' artwork on Avengers, Fantastic Four, and the X-Men, in future Essential volumes. If they do it will further demonstrate what a sad society we have become. I mean all of these upper-middle class housewives are having fits about their kids seeing nudity, well I say to these women be a parent and "police" what your own kids view, but do not try to censor society as whole, just because you find it supposedly so offensive. I bet your daughter is the one with her thong hanging out of her jeans at the mall. If you want to "police" something then care of that problem. I hate to spoil your delusions ladies but these kids are going through puberty and as such they will find access to sexually orientated material whether you want them to or not.
Sorry I hit the button twice
Ok, this is going to sound like an unreasonable rant to many of you, but please hear me out...
What really frustrates me here is from a female standpoint, I am sick and tired of the female chest being labeled as "naughty" and "dirty" and "adults only" when no one sees the same of bare chested men.
It's not considered obscene when you see a child bare chested (it happens on america's funniest home videos all the time), so the ONLY reason for this is a puritanical aversion to the DEVELOPED female chest.
The developed female chest is one where the milk glands that lie behind every set of nipples develops and fat is deposited to keep them warm. That's it!!
To require women to keep their chests covered when men must not is inherently the most sexist and misogynist aspect of our American society. We have a fit when women in middle eastern countries are forced to wear burkas, but that's hyppocritical.
What we're doing is teaching young women to be ashamed of their own bodies, and that is a HUGE part of creating the submissive self image that continues to impede the progress of women today in professional, and other areas.
Shame on Marvel, and everyone else who does such things, for promoting the shaming of young women everywhere.
If this all seems a little nutty and radical to you take this into account. Me personally, I am a transsexual (a fact that I don't tend to trumpet in public forums but it's pertinent to the point I'm trying to make), and before I began my transition, there was absolutely nothing wrong with me parading around with my shirt off. I was seen as "one of the guys", it was acceptable.
Now after transition (even tho I'd never go back for a million dollars), simply because hormones have caused milk glands to develop and fat to deposit around the area, if I appeared topless in a public place, I would most likely be arrested. Does no one else see the ludicrousness of this double standard?
It all goes back to the same old puritanical fears of women being temptresses and the scapegoats of the deeds of men that they didn't want to take credit for. Show women as seductresses and men don't have to get in trouble for cheating on their wives. Show that temptation as evil by reviling the female form in public.
We're in the 21st century and we're ALL still mental slaves to the beliefs of people who cried "burn the witch" as a regular pastime.
Tainted food for thought.
Anonymous and Crystal, I think you both nailed a lot of great points. Crystal, I don't think your rant was the least bit unreasonable, and it's very pertinent to the discussion at hand. Thanks for weighing in, folks! Keep 'em coming!
I had an experience tonight that will further illustrate our point that we live in such a repressed society. I am a member of the Uncanny X-Men Fandom yahoo group, and I asked an innocent question about the X-Men: Phoenix: Legacy of Fire mini-series to see if it was worth reading. The majority of the group’s consensus was that the storyline had really nothing to do with the Phoenix or the X-Men. The series was described as fan-boy garbage created to only show scantily clad characters to entice readers. I accepted these other member’s reviews and gave them due consideration, because I asked and because I have read a few Marvel MAX series in the past and found them distasteful because of what I thought of as poor storytelling. So in this way I agreed with the other group members and told them so.
I have read other Marvel MAX series like Fury and War Machine and found them in my opinion lacking. The Marvel MAX series seem to equate violence and sex with adult content without placing the characters with in a story that is truly engaging and worth publishing. As I have stated before I remember X-Men stories where Storm got nude and that is what I would consider mature content, however in those stories Storm’s nudity was not the primary focus of the story, but merely an instance. I wrote within the X-Men group that I believe for Marvel MAX to truly create a line of comics for mature readers the editors need to use the Marvel Magazines from the 1970s and Warren Magazines as reference material for how to do a good adult story.
Anyway while trying to further discussion on the topic I also mentioned that some of the Marvel Essentials were censored. I even posted a link to this blog so that other group members could understand what I was talking about, and I thought everyone here was discussing an important topic, that all comic readers could add their opinion to. Unfortunately the Uncanny X-Men Fandom moderator deemed the whole discussion thread “inappropriate” and deleted it promptly without warning or satisfactory explanation. This is a perfect example of what we have been talking about, and that our society is so uptight that female nudity cannot even be discussed within an honest, intelligent forum because it is considered so horribly taboo. I guess we need to follow this moderator’s example and perpetuate the myth that sexuality and nudity are dirty. Perhaps if society with do this as a whole all of our uptight, mis-informed, oppressive prayers will be answered and nudity and sexuality will finally disappear entirely. (Full anger and sarcasm intended)
Hi, I run a website and Podcast called Around Comics. We were very interested in this story, so we contacted Gene Colan for a response to this.
You can see it here.
If I seemed to be claiming "moral outrage" on the part of others I am sorry to mislead you. I am claiming imoral outrage on the part of myself. I think the adult nude human form is an awesome creation should be nothing to be ashamed of. Also as an adult I feel that I should have the opportunity to appreciate the adult nude form if I so chose. Unfortunately we live in a society where a number of busy bodies with too much time on their hands are trying to censor society as a whole rather than just censoring what comes into their own homes. Here is a clue, instead of letting the television or internet be the babysitter, why not exercise some back bone and pull your kids away from the screen/monitor, if you see them viewing something offensive. Make your children read a book and use their imagination. I am sorry if I sound "heavy-handed", because I know actual parenting and teaching your child about acquiring knowledge voluntarily is such a foreign concept these days.
I think Marvel had the right to censor them because it's their own stuff. But if someone else censored them it'd be wrong.
And they should have told people it was censored like on the cover or something.
Storm and Scarlet Witch got naked!?!
I never knew that. Was it like full on with tits and everything.
I think Marvel had the right to censor them because it's their own stuff. But if someone else censored them it'd be wrong.
And they should have told people it was censored like on the cover or something.
Storm and Scarlet Witch got naked!?!
I never knew that. Was it like full on with tits and everything.
I have the Essential Horror and Tales Of The Zombie. If they censored them I wouldn't know. I didn't get to read a lot of those when I was a kid. Not restrictive parents more likely a restrictive cash flow. Besides, I would have spent my money on issues of Vampirella first. :0)
I don't recall seeing any nudity in comics as a kid, then again my local newsagent didn't have a huge array of comics, but the basics; the closest I came to observing erotic imagery would be the draped female form, but with obvious curves (breasts, nipples, etc).
In direct response to the breast feeding magazine cover, it's now 2007, a near year after this post was posted, but I had to add that this issue has become a semi-issue in Australia. I'm not sure if the Bush administration has some influence, or rather, the religious aspect surrounding Bush. We have had a high increase of American Christian denominations spread their wings, to take root in Australia, and I can't say that I'm enjoying their commercial aspects (one of which, Hillsong) is a registered 'company' that is exempt from paying taxes, that is currently paying for prime time advertising on television, as well as paying for visual advertising on public transport.
I can't comprehend the sexualisation of breast feeding. In my mind, only the most perverted person would sexualise breast feeding or take issue to it, because it's not a sexual activity (in the sense of being pornographic or functioning for orgasm).
In Australia, networks have followed the American example, blurring breasts on television. Even a news segment on breast cancer detection blurs out the breasts of women undergoing mammograms (which is non sexual, and hardly comfortable), so I'm not surprised with the censorship in comics; it's insane.
Then they tell people that they live in a democratic society, where they are unable to choose.
My approach to the issue would be to publish the 'nude' version, and publish a censored version for the conservatives that are out there.
This visual censorship is like the parental advisory sticker on CD's; stupid. As if all parents shop with their kids when they buy CD's?
Y'know, when I read the reprints of the black and white magazine stories, I wondered why, since they were no longer under the auspices of the dreaded Comics Code like they were with the color comics, they didn't push the envelope further. The only thing I could think of was that things like a woman inviting Dracula into her bed and Dracula saying "What could possibly make you believe I am interested in having sex with you?" were really envelope-pushing for the time.
It's nice to see that they went a little further than that, but a shame I had to find out from Wikipedia rather that the reprint volume itself.
By the way, the Around Comics link mentioned earlier is now here.
E. Bernhard Warg
Anime's Frank
Otakon Classic Track
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Ss2wte2s_E
I suspect that if anyone in the "establishment" had been paying attention to comics during the 1970s, we would have heard an outcry and ended up with censorship back then. Its funny, though, the stuff kids can access at their local comic store today is way more raunchy and violent.
By the way, Savage Sword of Conan had lots of nudity too. But the trade didn't censor any of it as far as i could tell. Wonder why the difference with Tomb of Dracula? Seems like they could just not call it an 'Essential' collection if there is some general audiences rule with that.
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